Write about your personal experiience
(8 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by richardcollins
  • Latest reply from RonPrice
  1. richardcollins
    Administrator

    Tell us as much as you can about your earliest experiences being indoctrinated into a religion.

    Certain themes seem to occur in personal narratives people write. To help us focus I have developed the following questions that will help guide our study. The long term purpose is to bridge the communication gap between parents and children by developing targeted messages to deliver to parents.

    Suggestion for using the following: Copy all ten questions and paste them in a blank comment form. Answer as many as you like and supply any other information you would like to add.

    1. Your age now

    2. Age when your indoctrination started

    3. How long it lasted

    4. Denomination or sect

    5. Parental tactics to coerce compliance

    6. Your overall assessment: were you frightened about things you learned like atonement and sin, hell and damnation?

    7 Age when you started to think there was something problematical about religion.

    8 Age when you decided you did not believe

    9 Did you tell your parents or keep it a secret

    10. Any and all details that you care to add.


    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Keith
    Member

    We all aim for a free world.
    Freedom to be treated equally.
    Freedom to believe or not believe.
    As much freedom for women as for men.
    As much freedom for children as for adults.
    Freedom whatever the colour of our skin, or hair, or eyes.
    Freedom to be the same.
    Freedom to be different.

    It is a tall order. To quote a line from Creme, Godley & Gouldman’s Ten CC track: “Everyone’s going to be free, but they’ll have to agree to be free.“

    But children never get the chance to agree, they do what they are told, sometimes “Or else!”

    One of the main prerequisites of freedom is choice, and for many people a freedom of choice is restricted by an inability to afford. The inequalities in the world with regard to economic conditions and vagaries of food supply cause problems almost too enormous to contemplate.

    But these are conditions for the most part caused by situations out of the control of the individual. The one choice an individual retains, whatever prevailing economic or political climate they are born into, is the choice to believe or not in an external controlling being.

    However, the complex religious systems which mankind has created over millennia preclude this choice for as many, if not more, than those suffering economic problems. Because these systems are designed to be self-perpetuating.

    There are very few exceptions to this - although one was the Shakers who believed in abstinence for all. Small wonder then that their religious group died out.

    The easiest way for a religion to be self-perpetuating is for the adult believers to inculcate their children with their own beliefs. And this is, of course, what happens in many religious groups in many countries. So the freedom of choice for children does not exist, and is not allowed to exist. There is never a question of children agreeing or not, they just follow where they are led.

    I feel very fortunate, in the sense that although I am a victim of hereditary religion, my parents were gentle and loving people who sincerely believed they were sharing with me what was so important for them. There was no violence or outward form of cruelty. Nevertheless there was a level of control which was insidious, a control which I only became aware of with hindsight, much later in my life.

    As far as I can make out from the distance of my 64 years there would have been no way to avoid this control. It was imposed on me from my earliest years.

    My parents and grandparents went to church and I and my sister went to Sunday School with my father who was its leader. This began before the age of five, by which time the requirement was implicit in our very existence. On Sunday we went to Sunday School. We did not visit a shop. We did not play ball games. We wore our best clothes and we learned the bible.

    So it started, and so it continued. I went to Sunday School twice every Sunday and was proud of the 104 stars accumulated annually on my attendance card.

    I learned the bible, and my father was a very good teacher, so I learned it well. But I only learned it literally. There was no concept of interpretation. The bible told us what happened, and that was that.

    It took me over 50 years of study and thought to come to terms with the fact that I did not believe in anything outside of myself. And when I look back from where I am now, I realise how stultifying was my upbringing. It gave me no understanding of what I am about, or what other people are about. No understanding of how to relate to the opposite sex, or of sex itself except in a totally repressive way. No understanding of how to be in the world; of how to stand on my own feet without the crutch of religion to lean on.

    Now I have a difficulty knowing what to call myself. I am well beyond being agnostic - I passed that stage on the way out, as it were. I will not refer to myself as atheist as I believe the whole concept of a theism is based on a non-existent concept. How do I not believe in what does not exist?

    I don’t like labels anyway, and I cannot understand the need for them when describing people. I am content to be me.

    I now see religion, in all its forms, as the ultimate form of mind control. As such it is implicitly dangerous and to be avoided, but how to help children avoid a self-perpetuating concept is a challenge indeed, but one for which I am prepared to join.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. jamesatracy
    Key Master

    "my parents were gentle and loving people who sincerely believed they were sharing with me what was so important for them."

    This is, I feel, an important point. I think that most religious parents sincerely believe that they are sharing something with their children (perhaps share is too nice of a word) that is incredibly important to them. Given that, how can we convince such people that what they are doing is not necessarily in the child's best interest?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. richardcollins
    Administrator

    My response, while I search for better ones, is:

    No one faults you for your motivation or your sincerity. The problem is you cannot decide on a faith for your children anymore than you can pick their spouse. Religion is a deeply personal decision and the choice belongs to mature individuals. Ethically it is wrong to force a faith on a child who has no intellectual defenses against irrationality. You may think you possess the truth, but there are literally billions of people who argue strenuously otherwise. In a world where there is so much disagreement about religious truth, each individual must decide for themselves what to believe or not believe.


    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. richardcollins
    Administrator

    Keith writes:

    "One of the main prerequisites of freedom is choice, and for many people a freedom of choice is restricted by an inability to afford."

    Yes, freedom is an empty concept without choice. Thank you for your wise and insightful contribution. You write:

    "Nevertheless there was a level of control which was insidious, a control which I only became aware of with hindsight, much later in my life."

    One of my research tracks is to better understand exactly how control is exerted. Through rewards, of course. But, what are the rewards and exactly how are the transactions taking place. Rewards can be financial, or emotional. We know for sure that children learn at a very deep level and at an early age that they are totally dependent upon their parents for their very lives. The power balance in the relationship is stacked heavily in favor of parents.


    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. richardcollins
    Administrator

    Jackie R. writes to me:

    As a child I was forced to go to church every week and in the end I sought legal advice on what to do. I was told that as I was now 16 no-one could legally force me to attend church. That's the only way I stopped going in the end.

    I was also forced to be confirmed at the age of 12 despite my strong protests. The local priest wasn't child friendly so I wasn't able to discuss this with him. I wasn't brave enough to walk out of the ceremony and silently relented even though I was now a non believer.

    I recently wrote to the bishop of the diocese of which I was born in requesting advice on how to leave the church. I haven't attended in years and see no reason in staying with a religion I no longer believe in or want any association with.

    I was advised to talk it over with a monk at a local monastery but if I still felt the need to leave then to contact my local archbishop for further advice.

    Since my mind is made up I didn't visit the monastery but wrote a more strongly worded letter to my local archbishop. It has been passed on to the Vicar General of the Diocese but that was nearly 6 weeks ago, so I guess I will have to write an even more strongly worded letter.

    I got one of those 'debaptism certificates' from the National Secular Society which I have proudly signed.


    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. richardcollins
    Administrator

    When parents walk their little toddler through the huge front door of a church they do this with the expectation that the only way that child is going to leave is feet first, perhaps 70 years later according to actuarial statistics. They see what they are doing not only as a lifetime commitment, but as an eternal one, but the child has absolutely no vote.

    If pressed, the parents will say that when the child is 18 they can change their mind. What bald hypocrisy. Every thing they do and everything their co-conspirators do is aimed at wrapping the child so tightly in the group and the dogma that they will never be able to leave. Many personal narratives recount how they stopped believing, but remained in the faith out of concern for what their friends and family would think of them. Like closeted gay people these "adherents" are present in body only. What a toll such a hidden life must take. They must always guard what they say and do lest people suspect their true feelings.

    For the very insular, high maintenance faiths like the Mormons, Assembly of God, JW, Pentecostals and even many Catholics, leaving the group is a long painful process of saying goodbye to lifetime friends. Official doctrine strongly prohibits apostacy as sinful and the lonely apostate now bereft of friends and possibly even some disloyal family members, may even face a retrieval crew banging on their door with well thought out psychological attacks on their peace of mind.


    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. I started writing my memoirs in my fifties and have now written a 5 volume 2600 page package. it can be found on the internet by googling RonPrice memoirs.-Ron

    Posted 5 months ago #

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